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Discussion about high-fat/low-carb diets

  1. Bogdan Sikorski 2001-07-07

  2. Uffe Ravnskov 2001-07-08

  3. Bogdan Sikorski 2001-07-12

  4. Uffe Ravnskov 2001-07-13

  5. Bogdan Sikorski 2001-07-13

  6. Uffe Ravnskov 2001-07-13

  7. Barry Groves 2001-10-02

  8. Uffe Ravnskov 2001-10-02

  9. Dag Viljen Poleszynski 2001-10-02

  10. Dag Viljen Poleszynski 2001-10-02

  11. Chris Allen 2001-10-02

  12. Malcolm Kendrick 2001-10-02

  13. Barry Groves 2001-10-03

  14. Uffe Ravnskov 2001-10-03

  15. Bogdan Sikorski 2001-10-05

  16. George Zieba 2001-10-04

  17. George Zieba 2001-10-04

  18. Uffe Ravnskov 2001-10-05

  19. George Zieba 2001-10-05

 

2001-07-05 Bogdan Sikorski

Dear Uffe,  
I would like to congratulate you on your incredible and courageous campaign.  I am the president of a small, but growing Australian Homo Optimus Association Inc., which is a sister organisation of the Optimal Brotherhood.  This organisation and  movement, as you may already know, has originated in Poland about 3 years ago, based on medical and scientific discoveries of Jan Kwasniewski MD.  This incredible person has treated thousands of patients with a very high (mostly animal) fat diet, achieving impossible (according to modern medicine) results. In most cases, both types of diabetes can be cured, as well as various types of heart problems, atherosclerosis, MS et c.  The optimal diet movement currently numbers over 1 mln people in Poland who are following the diet.  Approx. 5000 of them are active members of the Optimal Association. 

If you would like more information, I will be happy to provide you with it.  I can also send you a book, Homo Optimus, which is an English translation of the original book in Polish "Dieta Optymalna".

 2001-07-08  Uffe Ravnskov

Dear Bogdan  
Thanks for your appreciation.
I am happy to hear that so many people enjoy their food without being scared by fat. However, that Kwasniewski should have treated atherosclerosis and MS succesfully by the mentioned diet is very hard to believe. If so, why hasn´t he published his results in a peer-reviewed journal? Although many doctors, researchers and editors have been brainwashed or paid to believe in the cholesterol hypothesis it is still possible to publish contradictory results.

 

2000-0712  Bogdan Sikorski

I guess, with your experience, I don't have to enlighten you what peer-review really is when it comes to revolutionary ideas/treatments, particularly when they totally undermine the current knowledge and the power status.  I am not trying to excuse J.K.  In fact I asked him the same question few times myself.  His immediate response was always the same.  No one wants to know!!!  But most of all, I think, after fighting for over 30 years to have his treatment approach/knowledge accepted in his homeland, and even with a backup of an expert-conducted and reviewed study, he simply does not care any more, particularly for the rest of the world.  By the way, high-fat diet successfully cures!!! not just atherosclerosis or MS, but a multitude of other diseases, particularly diabetes. Of course there are numerous (thousands) of cases of such successful treatments. Many recorded by JK himself, and many other ones recorded by other medics using his methods of treatment. In fact there are many medics who have successfully cured themselves of a variety of ailments. And still no one wants to know.  The facts and the knowledge are actively suppressed and/or ridiculed by those with decision making power.

Only today I have visited one of my friends in Brisbane who after 3 cardiac infarcts has almost totally recovered (within 11 months on diet and without any pharmacological intervention) his cardiac function. Over the last three days I was able to observe a 48 y.o. male, with what was diagnosed as Parkinson's disease, but looks more like a ALS, who after not even a week on the optimal diet has improved markedly his posture and has regained much of the strength in his hands.  I could go on, but it is pointless, since the likely hood of you believing in whatever I say is close to nil.  Funny thing is that just a jump over the water, you could see some of it for yourself.  If you are interested the place to visit would be Jastrzebia Gora, near Gdynia.

 2001-07-13  Uffe Ravnskov

Dear Bogdan - It is a pity that JK won't publish his results in peer-reviewed journals. Certainly, it is true that his papers may be rejected by most of them but you have to be persistent. I know from my own experience. My main research since more than 25 years has been devoted to the association between glomerulonephritis and hydrocarbon exposure (a popular-scientific review is available on www.ravnskov.nu/index.htm). The association has not yet been accepted by the nephrologic community but certainly by many specialists in occupational medicine. And although each of my papers were rejected on average by 4-5 journal editors I have eventually published more than twenty papers in that area, many of them in major medical journals. (You will find a list of the publications by clicking on "About the author" from the mentioned site).

Many many thousands of people claim that they have invented miracle cures for everything. However, it is not a good argument that you have seen many patients being cured by the miracle treatment because most diseases heal by themselves without the help of physicians or other health care providers, and many diseases may disappear spontaneously to come back at a later time (MS is a typical example). There is only one way to convince the rest of the world: the controlled clinical trial. Tell him that!

 2001-07-13 Bogdan Sikorski  
Dear Uffe, - Perhaps I should have started my first massage with a proper introduction. You see, apart from having gained a doctorate in pharmacology and a postgraduate diploma in OH&S (with a major emphasis on epidemiology of an occupational disease), I happen to work for TGA (kind of an FDA equivalent in Australia) as an evaluator of pre-clinical and lately clinical studies. Therefore, I am well aware of the value of well designed and executed clinical study. I am also aware of many problems associated with a conduct of such studies. It is well known that a large portion of published clinical studies are poorly constructed and are full of biases.  On top of that as many as 50% of them (according to a visiting FDA fraud investigator) are simply fraudulent - many without any results. This is particularly the case in clinical studies, not so much in pre-clinical ones. 

Going back to JK miraculous diet.

Until, recently I have never seen a person recover from Type I diabetes nor have there been any such cases in clinical studies ever published.  Similarly, I've never met a person whose heart has markedly  decreased in size (cardiomyopathic hypertrophy) and cardiac performance has returned to normal after a total withdrawal of medication.  Also I do not recall a single case of permanent remission of MS ever published in a clinical study. Yet the cases like these and similar have been happening for the last 30 or so years, initially in Poland and now in other countries.  I know the first two described cases personally, they both live in Sydney. The MS patient is himself a medic with a PhD who lives and treats patients with the optimal diet in Katowice. If you wish I can get his phone number so you can check this claim yourself.

Finally is it not obvious to you that in order to conduct a clinical study, one has to obtain approvals from certain governmental bodies, cooperation of other ones, help from colleagues, and finally funding from somewhere.  And who, may I ask, will fund this type of study.  As I have said before, a single clinical study was completed using 60 males with atherosclerotic heart disease in the late 80's. It was funded by the government and supervised by a group of eminent professors.  The results, although very positive, were never published and a further, properly controlled study was never allowed to happen.  There are currently some steps taken to publish these results - we may get lucky.

Therefore, what we have now are thousands of single cases of treated and in most cases cured individuals.  These of course can be constructed into a kind of a cohort and reported as a kind of a prospective study, but knowing the peer-review system such an attempt would be attacked by all experts, and never allowed to be published.  These are the realities of today's so called science.

Just to illustrate with a good example, you may want to go to www.pslgroup.com/dg/10786A.htm and see for yourself the report of a similar dietary approach in the US in a treatment of diabetes Type II.  Apart from that media release from ENDO 99 conference, the results of this prospective study have never been published.  I do have Dr Hays's e-mail if you wish to contact him about that study.

And what about the recent reports of digitalis anticancer activity by J. Haux from Norway and a group from Sweden. Apparently, this information was available to us for taking a long time ago, but was always treated as unbelievable and not worthy a trial.  Americans have screened digitalis and found no activity!  Thus, it looks like Scandinavia is the only region were this type of expose is allowed to happen these days.

On that note, I hope you realise that there is something more to J.K's approach than just some inflated claim.  You are clearly, judging by your stand on diet and other issues, a person with an open and very acute mind.  That is why I decided to approach you.  Should you wish to expand your knowledge in the area of dietary treatment of diseases I will be happy to assist you.  If not, I thank you for your time.

2001-07-13 Uffe Ravnskov

Hi Bogdan Let me be more specific. I agree that a high fat-low-carb diet is excellent for type 2 diabetics - I have used that approach in many patients and some of them have lost weight and their diabetes has disappeared. Being involved in two other, major medical problems as a scientist my time has not allowed me to do more about that, but I intend to take up the issue in the future. There is much scientific support to the idea of treating diabetics with a high-fat diet, in particular from Jules Hirsch's group in New York.

But if a high-fat diet can cure type I diabetes, Jk has a great responsibility to give this message to the medical community. I am absolutely confident that a well- written paper, reporting completely recovery from proven type I diabetes on a high-fat diet in  say five or ten patients, will be accepted by most medical journals, at least non-American. To publish such a paper, based on meticulous records of his own patients, needs no approval from any university or any group of professors. Neither is it necessary to include a control group because I have never heard about patients with type I diabetes who have recovered. This is simply an observation of Nobel Prize class.

As regards MS this disease is most irregular, coming and disappearing with intervals up to decades. A controlled trial is therefore necessary and I realize that it will not be easy to perform such a study outside a university. But again, tell him to start with diabetes type I only (and ask him to remain quiet about his claims about other diseases - anyone who claims that he has invented a cure for almost all diseases is seen as highly suspect by the scientific community). If his results with this disease can be reproduced by others he will have no problems with funding or university support ever.

Why didn´t he publish his study about atheroscclerosis?


2001-10-02  Barry Groves

Hello Uffe  
 Rejected? Now there's a surprise! Good letter, Uffe, wrong sentiments. But then, did anyone take Reiser seriously when he wrote his critique of the AHA's diet/heart statement in 1984 (Reiser R. A commentary on the rationale of the diet-heart statement of the American Heart Association. Am J Clin Nutr 1984; 40 (3): 654-8.) Perhaps you should try the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

 By the way, there is a doctor in Poland, Jan Kwasniewski, who treats heart disease very successfully with a diet that is 70% fat (as saturated as possible), 20% protein (mostly eggs) and 10% carbohydrate - by weight. He has a big following throughout the world among Polish-speaking expatriates. He is also successful with many other diseases such as stopping the progression of multiple sclerosis, and reversing it if it has not progressed too far. He doesn't speak English, unfortunately, although his son Tomasz does. Tomasz's e-mail address is toan@kki.net.pl. They have a  website in Polish at http://www.optymalni.com/. Despite the limitations of his only speaking Polish, Jan could be a useful addition to this group. There is a very strong 'Optimal Nutrition' group in Australia. I know one of this group well. He is Bogdan Sikorski PhD, a toxicologist working for the Australian government in Canberra. He too could make a useful contribution. Bogdan's e-mail is glitterkid@clover.com.au. Would you like me to contact them?


2001-10-02 Uffe Ravnskov
 Hi Barry and other skeptics!  I have great sympathy for Jan Kwasniewski, but I am also sceptical to some of his ideas and results. In a correspondence with Bogdan Sikorski some months ago I gave him my view on Kwasniewski. Maybe I am too critical. I have attached my correspondence with Sikorski (see above). Comments are welcome.

2001-10-02  Dag Viljen Poleszynski

Dear skeptics, The information on the Polish doctor is very interesting, and I hope that some of his experiences may be related in a more widely spoken language (unfortunately, my grandfather's name does not mean that I speak the language). There is another doctor whom you might have heard about who has been using more or less the same approach for 40 years or so and who has had great success not only with heart disease, but also with a number of auto-immune diseases such as ulcerative colitis and Crohn's. His name is Wolfgang Lutz, the book title Leben ohne Brot, and an English edition can be found at www.amazon.com. I use his book as recommended reading in a new nutrition course at a small college in Northern Norway (Harstad). 

 2001-10-02 Dag Viljen Poleszynski

Dear skeptics! This debate is very interesting. Some of you may know about the late Dr. Hans A Nieper, who treated more than 1000 MS patients with considerable success (Klenner did the same thing decades before him), others of the experiment on an all-meat diet in 1928-9 by Vilhjalmur Stefansson, with many publications demonstrating that this diet is quite feasible. Dr. Lutz (Leben ohne Brot) reportet a 93% cure rate for ulcerative colitis and over 80% of Morbus Crohn with a high-fat, high-protein diet, also used successfully against a host of other diseases including CVD and MS (36 cases, published in Wien. Klin. Wochenschr. 1961; 43). As known, the Inuit seldom or ever experienced any of the mentioned diseases eating 75-80% fat, 20%+ protein and less than 5% carbs. Some of you may also be familiar with dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution, in which he explains how one may effectively reduce the insulin need for type I (but not 100% down, himself having achieved an 80% reduction). A complete cure for type I would be sensational, even if only a handful could be shown.

 If references are of interest, let me know. Most of them can be found in the book by Lutz. 


2001-10-02  Chris Allan

Dear All: I am the coauthor of the English version of "Life Without Bread" with Dr Lutz. In this book we present data on Dr. Lutz's clinical studies, but also explore many recent studies published worldwide. Every attempt was made to clearly show that fat is indeed a healthy food and that carbohydrates are the major dietary factor for poor health. We also focused on discussing many myths that exist (at least in the USA) regarding high-fat diets. In chapter one I attempted to reference as many books as I could that stress the benefit of low-carbohydrate high-fat diets. Some of the authors are part of this network (Uffe and Barry, for example). Unfortunately, many of the American writers tend to self-promote and not formally recognize others in the field. I tried desperately to avoid this, but I missed a couple of books. 

What is most frustrating to me is that the people who control information actually have the audacity to repeatedly state that there is no evidence for a health benefit for low-carbohydrate diets. A quick and simple literature search with most web-based medical search engines shows an unlimited number of papers and studies supporting low-carbohydrate nutrition. It seems there is still a long way to go, but progress is made daily.

I do want to say that Dr. Lutz did an amazing job in his years as a researcher and physician. His studies are incredibly powerful, and they were a large part of my "crossover" from low-fat to low-carbohydrate. Once one experiences the myriad of health benefits individually, then any doubt that remained is washed away.

 

2001-10-02  Malcolm Kendrick

Uffe, Thanks for including that discussion with Bogdan Sikorski. Some of the work on type II diabetes has also been confirmed by a study on the Atkins diet (high fat, low carbs etc.) I thought that generally you were pretty restrained in your scepticism. Treating type I diabetes seems pretty far-fetched. My only thought was that, perhaps these were type II diabetics whose condition meant that they needed to use insulin (somewhat different from early manifestation type I).

 As for MS - who knows. If Gluten can cause coeliac disease - basically a chronic immunological condition - removal of grain substances from the diet could lead to reduced inflammatory episodes in MS - in some way. Maybe people with MS are allergic to some type of cereal crop. Any suggestions? MS is more common in Northern Europe than Southern Europe. Do Scandinavians eat lots of oats? I know they do in Scotland (porridge oats, oatcakes, haggis etc.)

 

2001-10-03 Barry Groves

Dear Uffe and Skeptics  I see that you (Uffe) know of Jan Kwasniewski and Bogdan Sikorski. I too am skeptical of people who claim to have panaceas. But, in this case, I am prepared to believe because all the diseases JK claims to be able to help are diseases of civilisation: diseases that are not contagious, were relatively rare until the beginning of the 20th-century and which rose dramatically during that century. We know that obesity, type 2 diabetes, ischaemia and some cancers have a similar aetiology in a diet too rich in carbohydrates. These are easily treated by a diet in which carbohydrates are replaced with fats. So it makes sense to me that diseases such as multiple sclerosis, another previously rare, if not unheard of, disease which appears to have a dietary fat dimension, may also be treated by dietary means.

 Dag Viljen makes a number of relevant points about previous treatments of several diseases with a high-fat diet. I too have much experience in treating obesity along similar lines, hence my book with the title "Eat Fat, Get Thin!". I introduced Wolfgang Lutz to Jan Kwasniewski a couple of years ago. Wolfgang met him in Vienna last year and was so impressed with Jan that he has adopted Jan's dietary regime himself. Wolfgang is in Austria at present but I will see him in London in about three weeks' time and we will discuss this. 

I see no problem with a 100% 'cure' for type 1 diabetes. If the patient does not eat foods that require insulin for their metabolism, surely, while that cannot really cure his diabetes, nevertheless, it effectively ends his problem and he can lead a normal life without need for drugs - which is indistinguishable from a cure. 


2001-10-03  Uffe Ravnskov

Dear Bogdan I would like to continue our discussion from July. Although I do not share all your views and am sceptical to some of Kwasniewski's results I think that it would be interesting to include you in our network. A few months ago I started an electronic network of university people sceptic to the cholesterol hypothesis and the diet-heart idea. We are now about 40 individuals with varying backgrounds, but with a common denominator: scepticism. Most of us have our own hypothesis about the cause of atherosclerosis and coronary heart disease, but in contrast to the cholesterol mafia and its supporters we are open-minded and are willing to discuss any hypothesis. On the other side, be prepared to meet opposition (what else is to be expected from a group of sceptics?). Recently your name was brought up which inspired me to send our correspondence to the members. If you are interested to participate give me a response and I shall send you the most important material that has been disseminated hitherto. I have attached the first letter and a list of members. Barry Groves suggested that we included Jan also but I see a problem if he doesn't speak English. What do you think?

By the way, I am still curious - why wasn't the paper about the 60 men
with atherosclerosis published

2001-10-05  Bogdan Sikorski 

Uffe,I think I already mentioned why the results of that study were not published. But I can elaborate further. The study was fully paid by the ministry of health and was conducted by soecially selected group of professors under the direction of prof. Rafalski. Below is his report as published in the book Homo Optimus
No evidence of negative changes

Łódy, 26.10.1987.
The collaboration of our Institute for Human Nutrition with the medical practitioner Jan Kwaoniewski goes back 10 years.  It was commenced following the initiative of the then Minister of Health and Social Care to
set up a special commission to assess the results of research conducted by J. Kwasniewski.  I became a member of this commission which was headed by Prof. Dr J. Aleksandrowicz.  From that point in time J. Kwasniewski remained in close contact with us, taking an active part (giving presentations) during seminars which were run in our Institute and in the collaborating of this Ist Clinic of Internal Diseases at our University.  He took an active part in setting up of the methodology, meritorious and organisational foundations for the research project entitled, "The effect of low carbohydrate diet on the condition of
health, nourishment and the metabolism of fats and nitrogen in the human body", conducted as part of ministerial program "Optimisation of population's nutrition", and coordinated by the Institute of Food and
Nutrition in Warsaw.  It has to be added that the concept of a "low carbohydrate diet" equates with the concept of the "optimal diet", as used by J. Kwasniewski.  The preliminary experiments conducted on laboratory animals showed that a low carbohydrate diet significantly lowered the blood level of cholesterol and other lipids.
The next series of experiments, conducted on mature-age male patients suffering from cardiovascular disease were undertaken in close collaboration with the Ist Clinic of Internal Diseases and the Institute of
Laboratory Diagnostics and Pathology at our University.  They proved that a low carbohydrate diet, implemented for 6 months, caused a significant weight loss in overweight subjects, and additionally:
(i)   did not cause any measurable negative changes in the health (as assessed on the basis of a range of pathological and clinical tests);
(ii)   did cause a measurable positive changes in the health of male patients. These changes included (apart from the loss of weight):
-       improvement of physical condition
-       improvement in functioning of cardiovascular system
-       abatement of symptoms of coronary heart disease
-       improvement in function of respiratory system
During the 6-month period of the diet, there was no evidence of the symptoms of ketosis, hypercholesterolemia, or hyperuricemia which were considered the main reservations against the low carbohydrate diet.It needs to be mentioned that before our investigation, experiments on the effect of the "optimal diet" were conducted on rats by the group of investigators under Prof. Dr S. Berger, who were able to show the positive effect of the diet on the function of the central nervous system (brain) in rats.
The above-cited facts demonstrate J. Kwasniewski's knowledge in the field of human nutrition and his ability to utilise this knowledge in a practical way.
Prof. Dr Henryk Rafalski
The Chair of Hygiene, Medical Academy in ŁódY

However a proper scientific report/summary, although apparently written has never been published, even in Polish for obvious reasons. There was a plan to continue with similar, but controlled studies, however, key members of the team withdrew and actively acted against continuation of this research. One does not have to wonder why.

We, or more precisely JK and his publisher in Warszawa, are trying to get the original report from archives and publish it together with summary of results. Will let you know soon if their plans will be realised.
Bogdan


  2001-10-04 George Ziba

Dear Prof. Ravnskov,  For the last few years I have been tracing your crusade . Around four years ago I started following the guide lines of high fat diet as proposed by dr.Kwasniewski from Poland in 1960-ties . Since then I have been an active promoter of your works as well.  A year ago, with dr.Bogdan Sikorski from Canberra we set up the Australian Homo Optimus Association , a non profit organisation that actively helps people to regain their health by using high fat, low carb and low protein way of nutrition. I also have set up a web page : http://www.members.optushome.com.au/bartim  that might be of interest to members of the Cholesterol Network. We can provide the group with CONCRETE medical evidence if necessary. We will also recruit more medical doctors to join you as well.
 Best Regards, George Zieba, Sydney, Australia

2001-10-04 George Zieba

Dear Prof.Ravnskov, I am aware of the exchange of your correspondence with dr.Bogdan Sikorski.  I am one of the first people in Australia who tried the approach as described by dr. Kwasniewski. Recently we had a pleasure of a presence of dr. Mariusz Glowacki – neurosurgeon who ( with his other two collegues ) actively uses the concept of the Optimal Nutrition as developed by dr.Jan Kwasniewski. Dr.Glowacki , spent two weeks here in Sydney , Australia providing invaluable assistance to our organisation i.e. the Australian Homo Optimus Association. We had a numerous interviews on the local Polish radio and TV stations with excellent interest.
 Going back to diabetes. The results as presented here by dr.Glowacki :
a. Non Insulin Dependent Diabetes Mellitus - 100% of all patients stopped taking any oral medications. Exact number of patiens will be known ( data is being collated ) but it is in hundreds that can be identified formally - thousands more "out there" but of no scientific relevance.  - on average, patients with NIDDM stop taking their medications within 3 weeks.  - no complications have been encountered
 The latest from among many more cases here in Sydney :

 Female, 46 , T2 diabetic dx'd in 1992. 165 cm ( 5'2" ) tall, almost 130kg ( approx. 280 lbs ), diabetes  controlled ( hardly ) by DIABETEX 4 tablets/day  and Diamicron 80mg 2x/day, BP over 200/110 controlled by Avapro to more acceptable level. Told that she would have to start on insulin.

I organised a menu for her for just two days to be repeated alternativel over the first week, later assisted her in controling the correct preparation of food as per dr.Kwasniewski's guidelines.

 The results : 
- First week : reduction to 3 x DIABETEX
- Second week : reduction to 2 , BP significantly reduced
- Third week : NO DIABETEX  , loss of weight : 8 kg
- Fifth week loss of weight 13 kg , BP 140/80 with NO TABLETS
- BG measuered in the morning is 108 to 128 WITHOUT medications ( previously,
with meds : 196 to 290 ) 
- today i.e. 04.10.01 : blood pressure only slightly elevated - weight loss , 21 kg and weight still coming down
 b. Insulin Dependent Diabetes Mellitus - At least 50% of their patients STOPPED taking insulin alltogether. We also have local ( i.e. in Sydney cases like that , after injecting insulin for 22 years, injections were no longer necessary within 5 days, consulted over the phone with dr.Jan Kwasniewski. The name of the patient can be supplied )
 - Approx. 50% who have suffered a more extensive liver damage have reduced insulin intake by approx. 50 to 70%
 -  IDDM is far more difficult to treat due to :  * possibility of blood glucose level go "yo-yo" unexpectedly and due to still unknown reasons  * BG is controlled initially 6 times a day  * any infection or presence of parasites ( i.e. lambia ) precludes a patient from treatment as this was observed to be one of the primary reasons of wide glucose fluctuations Observations of numerous patients go as far as 3 to 5 years - with good results ie. stable AND low blood glocose levels with NO medications.  Please note that in the region of Silesia ( the orygin of the Optimal Nutrition ) in Poland it is estimated that the sale of insulin dropped by 67%.Patients with MS :
 It is difficult to provide systematic data but in ALL patients a significant improvement was observed however with a varying degree. Nevertheless the consistency of improvements indicates very strongly positive effect of the dietary treatment. Here it must be said that this treatment is actively supported by the use of the Selective Currents.  Probably one of the most spectacular results is almost total elimination of incontinence which often is associated with MS. In fact, incontinence based on other etiologies is treated with the use of the Selective Currents with almost 100% efficacy.  
Patients with Athero and Arteriosclerosis :
 Treatment relatively easy with the results also very spectacular. Improvement is SIGNIFICANT and FAST ( within two to three weeks ). Exact numbers , cases etc ... can be provided later. It is claimed that this is one of the easiest diseases to cure.  
Patients with Thromboangiitis Obliterans ( according to the medical textbooks - incurable ) as well as any other problems realted to insufficient blood circulation ( i.e. advanced stages of diabetes leading to amputations etc ...)  Here, treatment can be longer but ALWAYS with very positive results. ALWAYS the Optimal Nutrition is combined with the Selective Currents. Usually after just 5 to 6 treatments the blood circulation is slowly restored with CONTINUOUS improvements over the time. In many cases patients were able to walk out of the clinic on their own legs :-))  after just two weeks of treatments.  There are numerous cases of limbs saved from amputations. There have been many patiens who have already had a referral to surgically remove a limb prior to the treatment as above. Patients with Asthma.  Sever asthma attacks were sucessafuly stopped with the shortest time of three days. Obviously it varies but if I remember correctly 50% of patients stop having attacks
after approx. 6 weeks and around 90% within 3 months. In some , more severe cases , Selective Currents also are used.
 Obesity
 This is a simple , effective and a very pleasant treatment based almost exclusively on
the prinicples of the Optimal Nutrition ( with exception of rare case of insufficient lipoprotein lipase production ). Patients do NOT starve, in fact they eat as much as they want , they are never hungry. The weight loss varies widely but on average it is approx. 2 to 4 kg/week. The largest weight loss as recorded and published in the book by dr.Kwasniewski was a male, from 185 kg to 78kg in one year ( in 1969 ). There are other interesting medical facts that best could be obtained from the medical practitioners themselves.  OR - it would take you just a ferry ride across the Baltic Sea to Gdansk and to Jastrzebia Gora ( by the way dr.Glowacki and dr.Pala speak quite good English ).
I understand your position of being very sceptical about it but ...as I said it can be very easily verified. Should you or any of your collegues need practical evidence please do not hesitate to contact me or Bogdan.
 I and my family have been using the Optimal Nutrition for the last 4 years with fantastic results ( especially in my wife i.e. the symptoms of climacterium have disappeared within one month and she does not need any more hormon replacements , significantly improved blood circulation , energy levels , no more flatulence, no more liver problems, smoother skin :-))   )  Two years ago I have put my mother on the Optimal Nutrition with the following results :
 Age, 78 ( now 80 ) , T2 diabetic, 12 kg overweight, significant problems with the liver ( over more than 45 years , ALWAYS bloated, ) and at the age of 76 blood pressure reaching 220/110. Blood pressure controlled by drugs, but use difficult due to various side effects. Significant pain in lower limbs after a 500 m walk.  Now : no need for any oral medications for diabetes or hypertension. No pain in legs even after a long time walking. Significantly improved energy levels ( she feels like a 40 year "youngster" ) . Skin complection so improved that often asked for the brand of cosmetics , she answers : egg yolks, bacon, cream, liver,  cheese etc ... :-)) Blood pressure STABLE at 120 to 130 / 80 to 90. For the first time NO BIG BELLY. Weight : normal.
I have spent the last 4 years , searching and studying human Biochemistry, Physiology etc ... I am also a Certified Clinical Hypnotherapist ( two diplomas in Clinical Hypnotherapy, one Australian, one USA ).  I would be grateful if you included me in your list of Cholesterol Network although I am not a medical doctor. Even if you could just limit me to "read only".  Congratulations on your fantastic efforts !


 2001-10-05 Uffe Ravnskov

Dear George I warn you before you continue to read my response - you have contacted a skeptic! And my scepticism is directed at all directions. But if you continue you may also get some good advice how to convince the world about the positive effects of Kwasniewski's diet. Let me answer in the same order as your points are presented in your letter.

That 100 % of NIDDM patients stopped taking oral medications is no proof of a particular effect of a high fat-diet. No patient with NIDDM need to take any oral antidiabetic medicine if the glucose level is regulated by carb restriction. Besides, to my knowledge there is no scientific evidence whatsoever that oral antidiabetic medication will prolong the life of diabetics.

Another problem is to separate the effect of the diet from the effect of weight loss. Any practicing doctor knows that weight loss ameliorates NIDDM and can even get it to disappear. (Unfortunately, many doctors, at least here in Sweden, seems to have forgotten it. Instead they prescribe insulin treatment which is deleterious to an overweight NIDDM patient.)

When it comes to IDDM be careful with words. In my correspondence with Bogdan he mentioned that IDDM can be cured. I have now understood that by cure you mean that the patients need not take insulin. This is a marvellous result and as I wrote to Bogdan, get it published as soon as possible! But you have not cured diabetes, you have accomplished an excellent symptomatic effect of your treatment. The well-known harmful effects of an infectious disease for instance clearly shows that diabetes, eg. lack of Langermann cells, is still there. The allegation that a high-animal-fat diet is beneficial is sufficiently controversial - therefore avoid other controversial statements, in particular when they are not true.

Now to MS. Again, if the benefit on that disease is true, you are obliged to publish your result. As I mentioned to Bogdan, MS is a highly variable disease, coming and going in an unpredictable way. Therefore, any alleged improvement has to be tested by others. For a start, publish the result of the treatment on incontinence. If your results can be confirmed by others, you are in a much better position to be able to get your other results published.

By the way, what do you mean by Selective Currents?

And what do you mean by having treated atherosclerosis in two to three weeks? How did you confirm the improvement? Atherosclerosis is a very slow process and I doubt that any technique would be able to show any changes in such short time.

The effect on peripheral obliterating sounds marvellous, but again, publish them! Such significant improvements as you describe in your letter is not difficult to document with the many variants of modern angiographic techniques.

My objections to the effect of the diet on obesitas are similar. Carb restriction is well-known as an effective treatment of overweight, although not generally acknowledged. How do you prove a separate effect of a high intake of animal fat? Isn´t it the carb restriction that is crucial?

A general comment to the Optimal Nutrition: Many people nowadays consume lots of polyunsaturated and trans fatty acids thanks to the cholesterol campaign. Couldn't the effect of your diet simply be due to the elimination of these fatty acids? You may possibly argue, does it matter? Yes it matters because if so, intervention should be directed against PUFA and trans fat, not by imposing a complicated diet.

I have restricted membership of the Cholesterol network to academically trained people, not necessarily MDs, by practical reasons. Already now it takes much of my time to administer the network. Being without financial support I have no secretary or data expert to assist me. Opening it for everyone would create great problems to organize it in a good way. But feel free to consult our website on  www.thincs.org and let Bogdan, who now is a member, keep you informed about our discussions.

A final remark. The results you and Bogdan have told about are indeed promising. Do continue, but the first issue on your agenda should be publication! Your results will never become generally acknowledged if you don't publish them in peer-reviewed medical journals. Take a serious discussion with the university people in your group and insist that they start publishing.

Best wishes for your future work. We will follow you with great interest. If you need assistance, for instance for reviewing manuscripts, you are welcome to contact me.  


 2001-10-05 George Ziba

Dear Uffe,  

I warn you before you continue to read my response - you have contacted a skeptic! And my scepticism is directed at all directions. 

 And there is nothing better than bounce an idea off a skeptic and I would like to thank you for taking your time to respond.   

 That 100 % of NIDDM patients stopped taking oral medications is no proof of a particular effect of a high fat-diet. 

 Hmmm... so what would be such a proof ? I am not aware of any other methodology that relies on diet only with the same results.   I think the key is : "long term effect". There are other ways to achieve "no meds" state, but ... usually these would be very restrictive approaches , not appealing to the palate :-)) hence , abandoned by the patients. This is a proof while they have failed and the Optimal Nutrition holds its position for a long period of time.

  No patient with NIDDM need to take any oral antidiabetic medicine if the glucose level is regulated by carb restriction. 

 As we know not all patients on  "carb restriction"  can stop taking medications , especially long term. The experience with Optimal Nutrition approach seems to provide all necessary nutrients for the sustained, long term effect.

 Besides, to my knowledge there is no scientific evidence whatsoever that oral antidiabetic medication will prolong the life of diabetics .

 How right you are ... :-)) It would be rather : shortening the life span - if anything.

 Another problem is to separate the effect of the diet from the effect of weight loss. Any practicing doctor knows that weight loss ameliorates NIDDM and can even get it to disappear. 

 Yes, this has also been taken into account. The practical experience indicates that just the weight loss in some cases would be sufficient factor in returning the "glucose - insulin" balance to normal. However, the same results  are achived in patients who are NOT overweight. Hence the separation aspect is maintained.    

 When it comes to IDDM be careful with words. In my correspondence with Bogdan he mentioned that IDDM can be cured. 

 Yes I noticed and I KNEW that you would pick on it. In my quest for making people think about this I always say : this is not a cure !! it is however extremely effective way of CONTROLLING diabetes to the point where medications are no longer required. But ... if a patient starts living in "sin" i.e. eating inappropriate amounts of food - diabetes is quick to return. This topic could be related to semantics more than to the main point of gravity being the "no meds" status but ... in many minds it instigates almost an aggression when you say "cure". That is why I am very conscious NOT to use the word "cure" in this context.

 I have now understood that by cure you mean that the patients need not take insulin. 

 The correct qualification in Poland goes a bit further as I used it  in my email  : Stable and low glucose levels.

 This is a marvellous result and as I wrote to Bogdan, get it published as soon as possible! But you have not cured diabetes, you have accomplished an excellent symptomatic effect of your treatment. 

 You are dead right - we are in agreement here ! although Bogdan may still argue :-))  

  The well-known harmful effects of an infectious disease for instance clearly shows that diabetes, eg. lack of Langermann cells, is still there .

 I do not wish to be disrespectful but : did you not mean Langerhans islets ? I am not aware of Langermann cells and if I am wrong I gladly accept your correction. (George is right, of course!)

 The allegation that a high-animal-fat diet is beneficial is sufficiently controversial - therefore avoid other controversial statements,  
 in particular when they are not true. 

 I will :-)) but which statements you have found not to be true ? (that IDDM can be cured) Please indicate , so I can analyse it and avoid it in future. Perhaps I have "overshot" a bit but where  ...?    

 Now to MS. Again, if the benefit on that disease is true, you are obliged to publish your result. As I mentioned to Bogdan, MS is a highly variable disease, coming and going in an unpredictable way. 

 Yes. I expressed the same point of view in my email as well. This creates a hurdle that in any scientific publication opens a gate wide for criticism. Any differentiation in this case might be controversial with exception of : a statistically significant number of patients WITH a control group. If on larger population positive effects can be shown in contrast to controls - then there is a case to argue. The problem is : logistics and funding, as always. However I know that there are some sort of studies being conducted in Poland on MS using approx. 300 people.

 Therefore, any alleged improvement has to be tested by others. 

Gee... I would love others to verify it. This would be easy.

 For a start, publish the result of the treatment on incontinence. 

 Perhaps we can do something here in Australia. We are trying.  

 If your results can be confirmed by others, you are in a much better position to be able to get your other results published. 

 I believe that it could easily be verified.  

 By the way, what do you mean by Selective Currents? 

 Selective Currents  - in a nutshell : weak electric impulses specifically designed in their characteristics to have a SELECTIVE stimulating effect on Sympathetic or Parasympathetic nervous system. Dr. Kwasniewski studied it for years ... i.e parameters, frequency of use, location of electrodes etc .... Some work was done by the Austrians in the 50's with very promising results but this again was not continued. This methodology, to my best knowledge, is currently being used only in Poland in treatment of various ailments when a dissonance between sympathetic and parasympathetic is the underlying cause. Rapid improvement has been recorded in patients with migraines or asthma. Long term effects are quite spectacular in cases of "incurable" Thromboangiitis Obliterans  - in this case it would be reasonable to use the word "cure". Etc ... etc .... That case in Brisbane that Bogdan told you was really short of a miracle :-))

  And what do you mean by having treated atherosclerosis in two to three weeks? 

 Treated, NOT cured. Secondly I said IMPROVEMENTS and not a total cure. For instance : a patient who was unable to walk 20m , after three weeks ( or less ) is able to walk 1000 m etc ....
We have people like of this type here in Sydney.

 How did you confirm the improvement? 

 Usually by some sort of physical test ( similar I guess to a treadmill run ).   

 Atherosclerosis is a very slow process and I doubt that any technique would be able to show any changes in such short time. 

 Of course and I did not say that cholesterol build up was removed within three weeks , however what was noticed : patients with severe difficulties related to coronary system get significantly better due to the fact that as it has been observed the blood viscosity is reduced resulting in better circulation. When this is supported by the use of the Selective Currents the results are really astounding.

 The effect on peripheral obliterating sounds marvellous, but again, publish them! 

 Yes, you are so right !! 

 Such significant improvements as you describe in your letter is not difficult to document with the many variants of modern angiographic techniques.

My objections to the effect of the diet on obesitas are similar. Carb restriction is well-known as an effective treatment of overweight, although not generally acknowledged. How do you prove a separate effect of a high intake of animal fat? Isn´t it the carb restriction that is crucial? 

 Crucial  are : proportions . If this is not maintained the results are always inferior.Secondly, carbs restriction cannot be considered in isolation. It has to be harmonised with proteins and fats. For instance , it has been observed that the blood lipids stabilise i.e. HDL increase, LDL reduces and triglycerides are reduced to very low levels.

 A general comment to the Optimal Nutrition: Many people nowadays consume lots of polyunsaturated and trans fatty acids thanks to the cholesterol campaign. Couldn't the effect of your diet simply be due to the elimination of these fatty acids? You may possibly argue, does it matter? Yes it matters because if so, intervention should be directed against PUFA and trans fat, not by imposing a complicated diet. 

 a. I would love to see studies or at least some trials with saturated against PUFA  with proteins and carbs at the same level in both groups. But , who is going to play with this ?
 b. This is NOT a complicated diet. It is estimated that approx. 1.5 to 2.0 m people have been using it. In fact , it is very simple :-))

 I have restricted membership of the Cholesterol network to academically trained people for practical reasons, 

 What do you mean "academically" ?  - an engineer or a physicist  are academically trained. Do you mean as long as a person is an academic i.e a graduate from a tertiary type of institution ? I would like to at least be an "observer"  if you do not wish me to participate actively. This is quite OK. Another words : if you could just put me on the mailing list, so when you send an announcement or info at least I could get it as well. This does not require any admin.

   Already now it takes much of my time to administer the network. 

 How do you run it ? Is it a private discussion group ? I wanted to set up such a group as well here for people interested in discussing use of the Optimal Nutrition. Bogdan is getting details. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to set it up exclusively just for the Cholesterol Network Members.   Apologies if it already works like this. If it does , perhaps you could include people like me having "read only" access.

 let Bogdan, who now is a member, keep you informed about our discussions. 

 This is what he does, but it is really very cumbersome although we are very closely "working" on this topic.  If I was allowed to just passively participate it would simplify the communication hell of a lot :-))

 A final remark. The results you and Bogdan have told about are indeed promising. Do continue, but the first issue on your agenda should be publication! Your results will never become generally acknowledged if you don't publish them in peer-reviewed medical journals. Take a serious discussion with the university people in your group and insist that they start publishing .

 Attempts like that have already been made but the suggestions were rejected due to a "non-conforming and controversial" nature of the topic :-((

 If you need assistance, for instance for reviewing manuscripts, you are welcome to contact me 

 I think  it would be invaluable.
 Best Regards, George  

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